Good morning and welcome back to Creative Parenting Club.
You may have noticed this week’s newsletter comes with a “listen” button at the top.
This week on CPC: it’s the return of our Creative Parenting Podcast, with one of our coolest guests yet: author, podcaster, executive coach, and mother of 10 Danusia Malina-Derben.
If you’ve been here a little while, you may remember Danusia from her guest post earlier this year:
Over the summer, we recorded a podcast interview, which we’re excited to finally release into the wild.
In case you’re not familiar with Danusia or her brilliant Substack Parents Who Think, she’s one of the most inspiring creative parents we have interacted with.
Here she is with all 10 of her children:
What more is there to say? In Danusia’s case, quite a bit.
As many of us struggle with the challenges of balancing our creative and/or professional selves with our double lives as parents to 1, 2, or maybe 3 kids (listen to the podcast intro for proof), we found it refreshing and energizing to speak with someone who is living out loud, finding balance on a scale most of us would have a hard time comprehending, and bringing all of her worlds together in the process.
In our interview, Danusia talked to us about her family story, her professional journey, her creative sleep strategy, and what it’s like preparing to have teen triplets.
To listen to the full conversation, simply click the link at the top of this email. As always, a written transcript can be found below.
Thank you for being here.
We hope this week’s episode is as enlightening for you to read as it was for us to make.
[Creative Parenting Club]
Danusia, we’re very happy to have you here today. Let’s just jump right into it. Where are you from and where do you live now?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
I live in the UK. I’m from the UK, I’m British. My father was from Poland. But I’ve lived here all my life.
[CPC]
You describe yourself as an obnoxious mother of 10, frequently side-eyed, yet unavoidably loved powerhouse, known for big career, big brood, and BS-free honesty. No topic is off limits. Could you give us a broad snapshot of your life? Where are you right now and what did you do until this interview today?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Right now I’m sat in my office-cum-bedroom, the quietest place I can record in, in a mini country house in the English countryside. This morning I was on back-to-back client calls, more corporate than anything else.
[CPC]
You describe yourself as having a day job and a night job. Can you tell us more about your night job?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
On my website I wanted to represent all of me, not separate my worlds into compartments. At a deep philosophical level I wanted to be integrated. Mostly in the day I do my corporate work, and then sometimes in the night I do writing and creative work.
It begs the question, when do you sleep?
[CPC]
We’re actually curious.
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
For many people, sleep is the eight-hours-a-night thing. But I write at night. I use the ambrosial hours — 3:00 to 5:00 am — because everyone’s asleep and I can get to me. So yes, I sacrifice sleep, but sleep is still important to me. I nap. I’ve taught myself to nap within seconds. Nine or eleven minutes feels deep. So I prioritize sleep: it just might not be when everyone else thinks it’s sleep time.
[CPC]
We love that you referred to the 3:00 to 5:00 am window as the ambrosial hours — it makes it sound more civilized. We also wanted to shout out your ability to nap anywhere.
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
When I shared an office as an academic with three older men, one thing that shocked them was my commitment to sleep. I’d announce, “Just about to have a nap,” lay on the floor, and do it. They carried on as normal. It refreshed me. We have to normalize needing quality rest.
[CPC]
Which is a great segue to the elephant in the room. You describe yourself as obnoxious. Why?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
It’s not because I think I’m obnoxious. It’s years of being on the receiving end of comments… people saying they thought I’d be a bitch or some corporate wanker, or the opposite, that thought I would be Mother Earth and they hated me when they heard I had ten children.
People project onto me. So I decided to name it. You’re probably going to think I’m obnoxious anyway, so let’s just name it.
[CPC]
Most of our community includes parents who are trying to figure their lives out with 1 or 2 children. It’s not often one comes across a parent of 10. Could you tell us what it’s like to have 10 kids?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Well first of all, I should say it’s not a blended family. They’re my biological children. I ended up with ten because I had seven, then had triplets. You don’t plan for triplets. It was a shock.
What’s it like? It’s a profound gift to steward that many children in modern times. We don’t have as much diversity of experience when we only see one or two versions of growing up. I’m lucky to have so many examples — so much difference, so much experience of life. I’m not pro big families for anyone else. I’m clearly obnoxiously an over-performer. And triplets are still odd to me. I still look at them and think, how do I have three of you at once?
I get told I have a lot of energy. On the daily, I wonder if I do. Maybe we stretch to what we’re given.
[CPC]
The amount you’re involved in is genuinely impressive. You’ve told us a little about your professional work and your creative work. What role does creativity play in your life? What does creativity mean to you?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
I see it as a source of my identity and how I retain the spirit of Danusia, which could easily, under the weight of a big brood, be squeezed to a crumb. It’s a wellspring, the moisture, the oil. Whatever form it comes through — podcasting, corporate interventions, writing — it’s the creativity at the heart of it. It’s expressiveness, expansion. It’s who I am.
[CPC]
Would you have described yourself as creative before you launched this night-job element? What came first? Could you tell us more about your professional history?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
As a child, I was a professional dancer. I won a scholarship to the Royal Ballet. I was crafting, writing, expressive. So creativity came first. Later came the corporate work.
[CPC]
So how do you incorporate your kids into your creative life?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Apart from recording podcasts, they’re pretty much around. I don’t keep my lives separate. One of my children has her own podcast — she started it at seven or eight and has won awards. We don’t say, “now let’s do creativity.” They are in creative things all the time: easels, paints, discussions, critical thinking. It’s important they’re critical thinkers, thinking creatively about big debates and small things. One of my daughters has her own Substack, though she’s paused it for now.
[CPC]
It’s cool the way you described creativity as a way of life for your family. One of our goals is to make space for parents who feel creative regardless of whether it’s professional. You mentioned hobbies earlier. Do you have creative hobbies today apart from work?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
I love finding treasures… things other people don’t want. Side tables, art. Being resourceful, upcycling, painting, decoupage. I love making a home out of discarded things. It’s financially resourceful and sustainable, and also artistic. Another hobby is Scrabble. I play at competitive level. It’s strategic and creative. I play daily. It’s not about vocab. You can have a pedestrian vocab, and still be good at Scrabble. It’s about placing, strategy.
I love chess too, but not as much as words.
[CPC]
We’re going to wrap up with a rapid-fire round. What’s the biggest challenge you face as a creative parent and how are you navigating it?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Probably jostling so many projects. I’m teeming with ideas. It’s where to place my energy on any given day, and managing frustration around getting to projects.
[CPC]
Not being able to do everything.
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
I ask enormous things of myself. I have great compassion for others’ limits but less for my own. So I’m always grappling with what’s the compassionate thing to do for yourself.
[CPC]
What’s something you know you need to work on or improve in yourself in the context of family life?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Connecting to my inner teen.
[CPC]
Your inner teen?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Yes. I’m preparing to have triplet teens. I want to remember what it was like. Not the era, but the spirit. So I can meet them where they are in confusion, growth, expansion. Teens think everything is possible. They ask, why not? Why can’t I publish a memoir? Why can’t I go to Australia at 13? Adults think in constraints. I want to remember throwing the doors open.
[CPC]
What’s something you’re proud of that you know you’re doing well?
[Danusia Malina-Derben]
Not shrinking myself to the model of mother society asks me to be. Being Danusia.
A big thanks again to Danusia for joining us.
If you’d like to be featured in one of our creative parent profiles, or you know somebody else who might, send them our way!
We’ll be back next Monday morning with our next newsletter.
Until then, have a nice week everyone — and remember that you’re doing a great job.
